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"There's always the question: who analyses the analyst? And who analyses them? And are they qualified to do it? All I can say is if they're talking about you, you must be doing something right" - Mark Lawrenson, August 2004.
Step forward the Mailbox...
The Man's A Comic Genius
In response to the various mails this morning about Motty, can I just say the best part of last night's game (apart from Italy going out) was Motty repeatedly referring to Daniel Guiza as 'Geezer'. Brilliant.
Rob Copleston
Not Everyone Is Laughing
Good player that Jharvee, but why have I never heard of him before? And how come he was allowed to wear Xavi's shirt?!
Motson, I hate you.
Tim, Slough
For Those Of You Have Just Joined Us, We Were Earlier Talking About John Motson's Commentary
I wonder if I can get get a bet on for Motty saying in his next commentary, "for those of you who have just come in"...or "if you came in late".
On seconds thoughts the odds would be crap as he says it every single
evening match he ever commentates on.
Nick
Motty's Mate Is Worse
I've watched the Euro 2008 tournament with great interest, and so far, bar a couple substandard games, the tournament has been brilliant. It's had it's surprises, ups and downs and there has been some fantastic football played. I am eagerly looking forward to the semi finals, but there is one person who threatens to undermine it all: Mark Lawrenson.
Having single handily attempted to destroy the beautiful game that is Pro Evo 2008 (just when you thought the audio on the series couldn't get any worse) and having almost given most of us a brain haemorrhage during Match of the Day, it was only being subjected to the man's inane analysis (I use the term as loosely as I can) for a full 90 minutes plus that his worth, or lack thereof, became truly apparent.
His insightful commentary consisting of one-word answers in what can only be assumed is an attempt at humour or witty repartee had me searching for the old laydee's knitting needles in order to put my ears out of their misery.
Motty maybe a bit of a fool but even he seemed embarrassed at times by Lawrenson's 'quips'. Please BBC, please for the love that is all decent and holy, get shot of this idiot. Even I could provide a more accomplished play by play during a match. Whilst drunk. And unconscious.
Oh and Konami, if Lawro is in this years Pro Evo... I feel so dirty saying this but... I may well go for FIFA. It's either that or shoot myself, and that one is too close to call right now.
Andy Chown, Horsham, West Sussex
How It Sounds Over There
I was lucky enough to be on holiday in Italy for the first week of Euro 2008, which meant I could watch either the German or Italian TV coverage. Since I speak neither language, I could not understand a word the commentators were saying.
Having returned home, I've become reacquainted with the BBC and ITV commentary teams and realise how vastly preferable the incomprehensible foreign language version was.
This Mailbox has already documented the dreadfulness of Lawrenson, Motson, Beglin et al but last night the BBC commentary hit a new low.
Listening to Lawrenson being patronising, smug, insulting, dull and unbelievably negative, was a totally depressing experience. Time and again Lawrenson drawled morosely that Spain vs Italy made France vs Romania look like a good match and muttered about the spectators (who looked pretty engaged to me) deserving better. They deserve better....they do? They don't have to listen to the lugubrious brothers doing their worst.
Like Phillip Cornwall, I found last night's game a fascinating match: no it wasn't a goalfest but it was like watching a game of chess between two masters, and I might have expected the BBC's so-called experts to have been able to appreciate that. But then, I might have expected my licence fee to be spent a little more wisely then on serving up this tedious dross.
Carolyn, South London Gooner
Stop Listening And Start Watching
Matt Wright, Gunner in Aus,
I think the two people you're referring to are Lineker and Hansen. They didn't have a clue what they were talking about? do you think that seeing as they are both ex internationals and have played and watched the game pretty much solidly since being children, they might have more of "a clue what they were talking about" than someone who has only been watching the game since 1998?
Is whinging about commentary the badge that makes you a 'real' football fan? Because every self-important t**t in this mailbox that does so, seems to do it with some sense of snobbery.
Saying that what do I know? I actually like Lawro's stupid jokes and I even miss Ian Wright when the internationals are on. His over the top enthusiasm and sulking were great.
Maybe I should just turn off the commentary and start creaming myself over prozone stats. Hmmmm, Senna ran 10.56 k.....Spain completed 345 passes. fascinating stuff!
Daniel Rolfe
...After reading many boring emails in the mailbox this morning on the quality (or lack of) of punditry on the BBC, it got me thinking. Do any of you guys - Gene P, James Pow etc - actually watch the football or do you turn the contrast down on your TV's, sit there with a pen and paper and write down every little thing you don't like about the commentary?? Personally, I couldn't care less what they say, I have my own opinions and people whom need it explaining to them probably shouldn't be watching football. GET A LIFE!!
I just lost a bit of my own life writing in to complain about your boring, worthless, non-purposeful lives but if it means the editor decides to refrain from publishing your drivel then I'm all for it. Send your complaints to the BBC and not a football website please. Thank-you.
Andrew Fairclough
It's Not Because You're Black
Can someone tell me why John Barnes seems to think there is a conspiracy afoot because he can't get a job managing in League One? I was just reading his comments re: Paul Ince and he seems to think he's being shunned due to the colour of his skin - I have another suggestion - perhaps you're just crap John?
Barnes' Management 'record' stinks and his punditry often reveals gaps in his knowledge that even I can see. He's a nice guy and all but I don't think that he's ignored for management jobs on the basis of the colour of his skin. Paul Ince got the Blackburn job because he showed promise at MK Dons and will be the fourth player from Man Yoo's double winning side of '94 to be in control during the next Premier League season - given the relative success of the other three it's safe to say he has the job on merit.
If the colour of your skin shouldn't matter, why are we getting in a fuss about this?
Joseph Thompson
Happy Blackburn Is In Such Good Hands
I know I am banging the same drum here in my praise of John Williams, Blackburn chairman, but I have to commend him on his appointment of Paul Ince. Having interviewed Stevie McC and Fat Sam and realized that the former really knows f### all about tactics (It will be funny at his first team talk in Holland, "You want us to do what boss?") and the latter possibly bored him to death with the powerpoint presentation on the long ball strategy, he zeroed on quality candidates, Henk ten Cate, Michael Laudrup and Paul Ince.
The former two were really interesting possibilities and I don't think any rovers fan would have complained had they been appointed but I think Ince has a very similar playing profile to Hughes and this is what makes him a good appointment. Some supporters may be wary of his of lack of experience but he has a record of driving teams in the right direction, upwards. Looking forward my opinion is that it will take some time for all to settle and we will be bidding farewell to some of the first team no doubt. Beyond this I can see us returning to our current level and challenging for UEFA spots, but I must admit it is exciting and I really think that the club, under the stewardship of John Williams, is finding its level and role in a sensible manner. Well done John.
David J.
Easier To Score In Than A Brothel
Luca Toni - 26 goals, Mario Gomez - 19 goals. By Jeebus, Bundesliga must be sh*te!!!
Judas "Ar Ar Arshavin, Russia's greatest goal machine, he tonked them all and said I feel fine" Iscariot, MUFC
What To Watch
Hats off to F365's Mediawatch for once again pointing out to us that nobody is interested in the Euros, audience share is rubbish, blah blah etc etc.
I was, in particular, very interested to read that "By ducking out of a challenge with the BBC that they know they will lose, ITV will also be able to fill up the prime-time spot with a schedule that will appeal to the masses".
A quick glance at the TV guide shows the BBC's Euro 2008 Final coverage clashes with Agatha Christie's Marple, followed by some drama called The Royal that no ones ever heard of, followed by Taggart.
I bet the masses will be all over that like moths to a flame. I'll be amazed if anyone watches the final at all.
Jaroslaw Zaba
Not Such A Bad Idea
I agree with NT. Having the penalty shoot out after 90 minutes, before extra time, is an idea I've been boring people with for years. However, I'd go a stage further; because the penalty shoot-out no longer has the same importance (the game is settled in extra time) it can go straight into sudden-death, there's no need for 5 each. This would invariably lead to a considerably shorter "gap" before extra time commences - last night's shoot out would have required one each.
In addition to those mentioned, there are a couple more advantages:
- The missed penalty doesn't immediately cost the match, there's 30 minutes to make up for it. The importance of the miss is massively reduced and football remains a team game.
- Extra time suddenly becomes more exciting. Similar to European matches when the away goal rule is active there's no longer a draw situation. The game has the potential to swing with each goal - was there a more exciting period than Liverpool v Arsenal at 2-1 (just before the Adebayor goal) last season?
Come on FIFA, having spent years tampering here's a chance to improve the game.
Rob Smith (delighted Italy lost)
P.S. Is anyone else concerned that England will in future be playing in the Italian style?
But Look At The Evidence
Resting players in the last group games seems to be a terrible idea: Portugal, Croatia and Holland all rested players and only Croatia can say they didn't deserve to be knocked out. Spain also rested players and played their worst football of the tournament as they scraped past Italy.
I'm sorry to inform NT that the idea of having the penalty shootouts before extra-time has been banded around for a few years. After watching Italy v Spain I can see the appeal, but when you look at how the Russians performed in extra-time it seems all it really takes is teams trying to win the game rather than waiting for penalties.
Speaking of penalties is anyone else really irritated by the coverage of the two shootouts. Instead of seeing replays of the penalty after each spot kick we get slow motion replays of players watching the penalties or fans celebrating them going in. They even showed a slow-mo of Buffon who wasn't even watching his teams penalties.
It doesn't seem right that Russia and Spain are meeting for the second time in the tournament in the semi-finals. In previous tournaments, teams who qualified from the same group would not be able to meet again until the final.
That is all.
Ed, Dublin
Negative Thoughts On Negative Italy
1. Good riddance. Italy were unbelievably negative yesterday. Spain had nearly 3 times as many shots on goal, and that is counting the weak excuses for attempts from Toni. When the Italians play in this typical way, I can't help but wonder if they even like the game at all. Why Del Piero didn't get more playing time is beyond me. In absence of the suspended Pirlo, he could have been the key for Italy yesterday. But perhaps he is too much of a player, and not enough a cheating grafter like the team Donadoni chose yesterday. Top scorer in the Serie A with 21 goals and only 15-odd minutes in the Euro Champs, in a game they were then losing 2-0. It beggars belief. If I were Del Piero (which I was not, last time I checked my trophy board and bank account) I wouldn't even want to play for Italy again.
2. I do feel for Gianluigi Buffon. Not only is he a magnificent goalkeeper, he is also a gentleman and a credit to football. I have rarely seen a more graceful winner or, for that matter, loser. Yesterday saw him go straight to Torres after the David Villa cheating incident. The manner in which was typical of Buffon: no intimidation, no agression, just a gentle arm around and a word of wisdom to a young player who could have got himself into trouble. Other examples saw Buffon console Adrian Mutu after the Romania game, having saved the latter's penalty earlier. That wasn't just for the pictures. He took his time and really talked to the guy. Same with Thierry Henry, who looked utterly dejected after the France game. Buffon: a great goalkeeper and a great man. As Ali G would have it: respect!
3. I read comments about the Toni moustache. Nothing to do with any grooming advice from the Neviller. Toni made a bet with his mate Klose. He will not shave it off until he scores his next goal. I already have visuals of Toni with a Stalin...
4. Arshavin will NOT go to Arsenal. Why? His club St-Petersburg AND the Russian national team are bankrolled by a certain... Abramovic. Yep, him of Chelski.
Wim Van Walle, Belgium
In Their Defence...
Having read some of the emails in relation to Italy's performance the other day, I would like to point out to the 'pundits' at BBC and to some of the readers of this website that there is an Italian in charge of your national team. Furthermore, if some of you who have not followed Don Fabio's career he has made quite a living out of playing that 'anti - football' defensive style.
Besides that it seems that the Dutch employed similar tactics in the group stages and were praised by pundits alike for their truly splendid style of play. Certainly the only difference between the Dutch and the Italians were that they had the players available to implement the style properly.
Ok, so the Italians had an off game, but if Andrea Pirlo was available, the result could and probably would have been different. Even more so, they could be praised for a defensive effort which restricted the likes of Torres and Villa. It could also be argued that they created the best chance of the game (Casillas save on Camoranesi). Finally, given the difficulty of the draw handed to the Italians and the Dutch it was logical they would run out of legs at the end of the tournament.
This is taking nothing away from Spain, their offensive mind set and persistence should be commended.
Yet, I seem to recall the European Champions Manchester United employing such tactics against Barcelona in the Champions league semi final. No one seemed to care then. How about Liverpool they seem to make a living in Europe out these tactics, but why is it that the Italians, the pioneers of such style are abused for employing such tactics.
So remember that the next time you are critical of such 'defensive' tactics, England could be the winners of the 2010 World Cup using the exact same style thanks to Don Fabio. Mmm I wonder if Mr Shearer and Mr Lineker will be so critical then......
Anon
Bad Moves And Bad Advice
While I can see why people are advising Gareth Barry to leave Villa, I can't see why Liverpool are being touted as a big step up (apart from, you know, they're interested).
They play muck-football that makes Chelsea look expansive, they'll play him out of position (if at all), they can't afford the other players they really need, and at the end of next season it'll almost certainly be the case that although they couldn't be written off completely from all competitions until quite late in the season, that when you look back they never looked likely or deserving of any trophy. They're not going to improve him, and if they waste him we'll have to listen to some auld nonsense about how he wasn't up to the challenge of a "big club like Liverpool."
Don't forget, it only takes a couple of bad games and they could be out by Christmas (as has very nearly happened twice in the last couple of years) and the great step up consists of the rest of the season hoofing up-and-unders to Fernando Torres and praying Everton have a bad patch.
Andrew, Ireland
An Opening Sentence You Don't Often Read In The Mailbox
I'm sorry, but John Nicholson is a moron. A fine example of a knee-jerk, bandwagon journalist. Yes, England's performances have been diabolical for a few years now, but to say the players we possess are little more than average is ridiculous. Everyone seems to be pointing towards Russia as an example of what England should be aiming for, and fair enough, they have been excellent. But it is no coincidence that the appointment of Gus Hiddink has coincided with this new era in Russian football. In my opinion, international football is the simplest of all levels.
Since Euro 2004, England have been managed terribly, to such an extent that I believe every England player now takes to the pitch with a huge sense of dread. I still laugh a little and struggle to comprehend why we ever appointed a man as incompetent as McClaren. The only thing more mystifying is how Barwick wasn't fired over the debacle?! But anyway, the past cannot be changed and we have to face the fact that under McClaren, and the final two years of Sven's reign, England played some of the most turgid and pathetic football I have ever seen. Does anybody seriously think that if Hiddink had been appointed England manager in 2006 instead of McClaren, we would have failed to qualify? And if we had qualified, we wouldn't have stood a great chance of winning the thing? I'm sure in France they aren't starting to debate the technical abilities of their best players, despite one of the most pathetic tournament showings I can remember. Rather, Domenech is rightly receiving huge criticism.
OK so England are struggling in a few positions, but there isn't a team in the world that contains a world class player in every position. Everyone knows that there is a lack of top English goalkeepers at the moment, but would you swap David James for Rustu? Or Lehmann? Thought not. Yet both those keepers will be taking part in the semi finals later this week. Everyone knows that there is a lack of English strikers at the moment, but would you swap Rooney for Gomez? Or Nihat? Or Pavyluchenko? Thought not.
The fact is, we might not have the best squad in the world. That honour would undoubtedly fall to Spain, Argentina and Brazil. But to say our players are average is nonsense. We have one world class player in Rio Ferdinand, then a group of about 5 or 6 really, really good players. And I genuinely do believe that I am not overrating them by saying that, just look at the champions league final for God sake. With a world class manager, there is no reason we couldn't be in a group of six or seven teams that harbour realistic hopes of winning an international tournament. Which is why there has been such a backlash by the fans and the media - because deep down they know how good we could be.
Tom Fitzgerald, London
Northern Wisdom
Great article from John Nicholson about England. However, what he doesn't address is why England are so embarrassingly poor in comparison. This isn't about commitment or passion, as these were perennially about the only things (along with imbecilic, drunken, fighting fans) that England could be guaranteed to bring to the party - although even these attributes were sorely missing during McLaren's tenure. This is about the touch, vision and basic footballing ability of even 'lesser' national teams at the tournament (such as Croatia, Russia, Turkey, Romania) being so much better than anything that most of our so-called Golden Generation are capable of producing.
Why the gulf in class? Because of the way we coach and play the game in this country. The emphasis on physicality over skill and the obsession of playing competitive matches in favour of learning and practising the basics. The 100mph of the Premiership does nothing to help with this, and it is no coincidence that the best players in the league are usually not English, having learnt to play in a country which encourages learning skills, not getting up each other's backsides (cf Andy Townsend).
Bar a gargantuan slice of luck, England will NEVER have a side that will be capable of winning an international tournament until this changes. However, the prospects of such a change occurring are pretty much zero as most fans are too addicted to the supposed superiority of the Premiership to accept that it fundamentally undermines England's chances at international level. Perhaps most football fans do not care as their allegiance is solely to their domestic team. If so, they will continue to get the international side they deserve and can endlessly look forward to the cycle of unrealistic anticipation and then disappointment that have characterised following England for the last 10 years.
Matt D
...Spot on John N. The sooner the media and fans stop believing players like Rooney, Terry et al are world class, maybe we can start the kind of restructuring France had after they failed to qualify for USA '94. In Capello we have the chance to blow away the dead wood, and start to put pressure on these so called 'top top players'. I vote for the UEFA team of the year to be gospel, and any player not in that side is not allowed to be called 'World Class'. If they are it can be taken to a trades description tribunal. Maybe then Andy Gray and chums will stop spunking their load every time Joe Cole does a step over, or Rooney finally scores at the umpteenth time.
Also, maybe if we taught our young players to play football, rather than run fast, be powerful and have a never say die attitude, maybe we would be able to match the technique foreign nations have. I knew at least 3 kids at my school who were fantastic footballers, but because they were slight at the age of 14 and 15, they were never picked and I do think some team out there has lost out because of that. They were brilliant, could dribble, shoot and pass, but because there was some 6ft 5 ogre in the year, surely he would be better in midfield. The logic, he would scare the other team. Unfortunately for the England team, they still use this idea that being big and strong, coupled with having a famous name, will intimidate an opponent. Something tells me if you are a Croatian footballer who lost loved ones in the conflict over there, some big over paid sack of sh*t from England is about as scary as Gok Wan!
Anand 'Sick of so-called World-Class Players' Modha
Ahh, Another Romantic Returns
I realise I'm a week or 2 late with this, however I thought I had to share with you all a great tip for keeping your mrs occupied during the game.
It happened last night, and I say 'it happened' as in no way was it intentional.
At around 7.40 I remembered (which is rare in itself) to pass on a telephone message to my mrs from a friend of hers from Leeds who she doesn't speak to that often, and when she does it's an absolutely monstrous phonecall, I'm talking hours. She then calls this friend back, speaks to her til about the 75th minute mark, by which time I've watched far too much of the game for her to turn it over and she's getting ready for bed anyway. Everyone's a winner.
Now I realise this is not a banker but it's worth a try in future.
Shame the game was sh**te.
Jon, Warrington
What The Kids Now Do On Stag Weekends
Seeing as though there's so much interest in the subject, I thought I'd throw my 2PNTH in....
I've got a stag do this weekend, and one of the 'jokes' is to all grow comedy 'tache's in honour of the neviller/toni/all scousers...
Seeing as some of us ain't seen each other for a long time, we think it'll be quite funny meeting up with varying levels of growth on our top lips... best tache wins, worst one gets 'The Forfeit'!!
Dan (the gales at the weekend have ruined my chances) Adcock
