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'It Barely Deserved A Booking'
I dread to think what the reaction of Arsenal's blinkered manager and spoilt brat of a captain would have been if Peter Walton had made the right call and just given a free kick! I have 3 points to make:
Firstly - are Arsenal victimised? I think it's generally agreed now that there was no malice in the tackle in question, but looking more globally - ask any Everton fan how many of their key players have been sidelined for over 6 months by bad challenges in the last couple of years. Are Everton targeted because they "don't like it up em"? Don't forget that Arsene Wenger spent a large amount of press conference time a decade or so ago trying to argue against his team's bad disciplinary record.
Secondly - for all those commending Arsenal's display of character. While they did well to win (with some charitable refereeing), the immediate aftermath of the injury reflects less well on their players. While Aaron Ramsey is clearly in a lot of distress on the floor, his captain, along with his most experienced teammate (Fabregas and Campbell) leave Stoke's Dean Whitehead tending to the injured player and both kick up what could only be described as a tantrum to try and get a fellow professional sent off. And this for a foul that barely deserved a booking. Meanwhile Niklas Bendtner pushes a clearly upset Shawcross away to prevent him from apologising. Now they may have been upset, but this behaviour was no less child-like than that of their former captain two years ago.
And finally in response to those idiots condemning Stoke in general, I personally hope that they don't suffer too badly if Shawcross does get suspended. They're a quality team who play to their strengths (very watchable in my opinion), and they have added a lot to the league in the last couple of seasons. And for the record they're about mid-table in the fair play league.
John (the 5th official), EFC, London
Done With Wenger
Alright this is going to be a hefty one...
Personally, the weekend went almost perfectly for me in terms of results I wanted, yet I'm left with a sour taste in my mouth. Firstly, I'm done with Wenger. Any last hint of respect i had for the man has evaporated. What a deplorable little person. Not even in terms of football but in terms of life. I can understand that the man is maybe trying to get his players into the attitude of everyone being against Arsenal, them against the world etc so as to motivate the team to win this title, i'd want my manager defending my players. But his attitude towards this situation, added to the previous one with Eduardo is nothing short of disgraceful. Is there a football person as un-empathetic as Arsene Wenger? Every single person involved with football has wished Aaron Ramsey well, he seems a decent kid, and the sympathy towards him has been massive. Everyone feels for Ramsey including Ryan Shawcross who met Ramsey in a 50/50 challenge. The ball only just got nicked away by Ramsey a millisecond before the collision and unfortunately Ramsey came off very badly. If that situation arose again, it could have gone the other way and Ryan Shawcross could have had his leg broken, and I'm absoutle sure that Wenger wouldn't have batted an eyelid.
Picture the situation, Arsenal take on Burnley next week, Fabregas goes in just so slightly late or even contests a 50-50 ball with Steven Fletcher, say. I'd hope that Cesc would go in fully committed, into a hard tackle, that's what a professional footballer should always do or they do not belong in the game. Cesc comes off ok but his contact with Fletcher leaves the Burnley player with a horribly damaged leg. It's the exact same situation as the Shawcross one. Would Wenger come out with his pathetic quotes? Would he, right off the bat, because of one mis-timed challenge from a professional player in a physical game of football, write Cesc off as a terrible person like he has with Shawcross and Martin Taylor. Would he claim that it doesn't matter how nice a guy he is because he broke a fellow professional's leg and call for him to be banned for weeks/months/life? Would he heck. As I say, you want a manager who defends his players, absolutely. But you shouldn't want a manager who is such a little man that he cannot see that some things are simply accidents. I know nothing of the man's personal life but what if he had a kid who played prefessional football and accidently broke another player's leg? Would he join the brigade vilifying him?
There are just so many points to contest from both excitable Arsenal fans and Wenger and his players, here's a selection:
The paranoia is ridiuclous, none of these 'horrific' challenges were in any way malicious, Martin Taylor's was badly mis-timed and Shawcross' wasn't even that bad, it just had an unfortunate ending.
In terms of Saturday's mailbox, the reactions that come straight after the game can be forgiven, the blood is still boiling. But if Arsenal fans, after a weekend to see the incident again, are still baying for Ryan Shawcross' blood then they are utterly blinded by their support for their club and by following a man who is even worse than bloody Mark Hughes when it comes to being impartial.
As I'll say a million times, the tackle was not bad, only the outcome was, a three game ban is three games more than Shawcross should be getting
"This is a young player who has been kicked out of the game. I'm shocked, that wasn't football. If I have to live with that, I don't want to be involved in the game. My players were too upset to celebrate." - 1) That was football, tackling is allowed in football, tackling happens in football, get over it. 2) I'd happily grab the pathetic man himself and chuck him out of the revlolving door marked 'football.' I have sympathy for Aaron and his team-mates but i simply cannot have sympathy for Wenger as he has too often shown that he has no respect for anyone who doesn't play for Arsenal football club.
"and spare me the articles tomorrow about how nice Shawcross is because we had all that with Eduardo." - I hope Momma Shawcross gets on the phone To Wenger and gives him a verbal ear-bashing
I won't trail through all the games that Arsene has managed but i'd imagine that he has had players who have inflicted an injury on the opposing side, it simply happens in football.
Cesc begging for more prtection is an odd one - i imagine him grabbing some kind of bodyguard or the ref himself to take a tackle that he doesn't fancy coming in on him. Seems like Wenger has instilled into his players his own philosophy, that there are rules for Arsenal and rules for all the rest. You aren't allowed to tackle hard on Arsenal apparently, it isn't fair. Ryan Shawcross, i'd imagine has put in plenty of challenges similar to that this season, if not even harder, it's a shame that this one ended up badly but thats football
I'd personally hope that Aaron Ramsey would look at that replay and see that it was a 50/50 challenge which went wrong for him sheerly from the fact that Ramsey got his toe to the ball a millisecond ahead of Ryan Shawcross. Hopefully, since he has only been under Wenger's tutelage for a fairly short time, he won't simply tow the party line and slate Shawcross for what was not for a second a 'horrendous' tackle, it was barely even a red card challenge, simply one which ended with horrendous consequences. I'd hope Ramsey would come out and understand that football is a physical game and that accidents will inevitably happen and he wouldn't bear a grudge against Shawcross. Hopefully then Mr Wenger and the rest of the fans utterly blinded by their loyalty to their club could not argue with the situation.
There are literally a million things more I could write about but I'm exhausted, the simple fact is that it was an accident, most people can see that except the idiotic Wenger and his odd cult followers, blindly (and blissfully happily) following him off the edge of a big mad paranoid cliff.
Dave (Exasperated) Glasgow
The Subject Line Of This One Was 'Grrrrr'
Is Andrew Ogilvy completely taking the proverbial metaphorical literal or is he just a complete idiot? How on earth was Shawcross' tackle "perfectly reasonable"? Granted, if poor Ramsey hadn't been broken in half the ref probably wouldn't have realised how terrible a challenge it was, but all he had to do was take one glance at the foot, recall his biology classes where the teacher stressed that feet are meant to be firmly attached to the body and not hanging on at a 90 degree angle, to understand that Shawcross made a boo boo. I won't take the path some people take and say "if he'd done that on the street he'd be in prison", because if you even acted out some of today's celebrations on a street you'd probably be committed, but nonetheless... well, if that really is your position on what a broken tibia and fibula warrants, then you, sir, are a t**t.
Aidan Ryan
'Wenger Is Partly To Blame'
Personally, I reckon Wenger is partly culpable for these injuries. Hear me out. Whilst every player should be able to express himself in their own style of football, it looks like Wenger and his coaching staff haven't been steeling their boys for the rigours of the Premiership. Example, look at Chelsea's Kalou and Malouda and Man Utd's Rafael, Park and Fletcher. When they first started making appearences they looked like they would be snapped in half, but then bulked up so that their prescence would be felt and wouldn't be taken lightly. Look at Rosicky, Nasri, Eduardo and Ramsey (perhaps Arshavin and Diaby too) and see players who's dimensions haven't changed or have changed little. Its like they spend no time in the weights room. Consequently, they lack the prescence that would ward off these challenges.
Sport (and especially male orientated sports) are by its very nature, for rich or for poor, manifestations of pent up aggression, so perhaps Wenger should spend less time on focussing on complex passing drills and more time on preparing his players for the realities of the football pitch. True, you cannot assimulate leg breaking challenges in training, but you can reduce their liklihood by increasing your prescence on the pitch and thus protecting yourself. Funny to think the foundations of Wengers success was strongly based on the physicality of Vieira, Petit, Parlour et al.
People can say till they are blue in the face that football is too dirty these days. I suggest those that do should look at football pre-sky, pre-premiership, and see what challenges went on in those days. The physicality hasn't changed, the muscular make up of footballers has. Wenger should realise the danger he may be putting his players in.
Trish, exiled in Mauritius
Not Happy With Cesc
It really riles me to no end to see all the accolades that are being poured on Fabegras. He is nothing but an arrogant c**t. What kind of player (a captain ffs) would tell an opposing coach to keep quiet?
This is very disrespectful and it is no leadership quality at all. Again, he was very lucky not to be sent off. The tackles he made on Shawcross and Pugh were as shocking as the one made by Shawcross on Ramsey.
Mr. Walton is such a weak refree. I think he indulged the players to make reckless tackles. The first bad tackle made in the game was by Fabegras and it went unpunished. By failing to book Fabegras, He failed to stamp his authority on the match. Had he booked Fabegras, he would have sent the right message to the players not to be reckless.
3rd paragaragh??? Wishing Aaron Ramsey a quick recovery.
Sheriff Baba Blue, Lagos.
The Wider Picture
Whilst the media, pundits and fans praise the likes of Stoke and Bolton for playing a mans' game, running around like headless chickens, long balls, long throws and justify these tactics against Arsenal, the England football team will continue to be s**te. There is a connection.
J Bush
Well Done Glenn
Amidst the discussions about intent and players who are 'not that type of player', can I just say that Glenn Whelan did himself and his club proud. His only concern was for the welfare of a fellow professional and his actions around ensuring that Aaron Ramsey could not look at his leg and was kept relatively calm will undoubtedly have prevented the lad going into shock and possibly causing himself more damage. He took control, got Bendtner to get down and help keep Ramsey calm and then stayed with him until the medical staff took over. Having seen people go into shock after similar traumas, Whelan's actions are to be commended.
Kudos to you sir for restoring a bit of faith in professional footballers.
Here's hoping young Mr Ramsey makes it back soon!
Ed, Gooner in Sydney
'Hypocrisy'
I have read many times on this (usually consistent) website how it is wrong that when a team gives away a penalty to prevent a goal scoring opportunity, that team is unjustly penalised three times (penalty, sending off and subsequent suspension). However, I find this sub-heading on F365 this morning which flies against all you have preached:
"the pivotal moment of the match was the inexcusable failure of referee Phil Dowd to send off Nemanja Vidic."
Any explanations?
Simon Agar
While it's true that we have advocated a change in the rules a number of times, the rules as they stand don't prevent a red card in this situation. Therefore, Vidic should have gone - MC
Rooney: Overrated
I'm a United fan who doesn't believe Ferguson is infallible and am vocal in my opinion of what I perceive to be poor tactics, signings, mis-judgement in persisting with a player. Players who have been subject to much criticism from me in the past include Park and Berbatov, but I have to say that today both put in very good performances. Park displayed virtually none of his usual characteristics: such as ending every move on the floor and "ohhh, almost" being the assessment. His movement was excellent and he looked like a genuine footballer for once. Berbatov looked like the player signed frm Tottenham too! Excellent. Credit where it's due, these guys performed today. [these comments about Park and Berba were actually going to be a 1 line comment for the obligatory third, where did all those lines come from?!]
I cannot fathom how Michael Carrick is a professional footballer. He should be on the Real Hustle and show the public how to con your way into being a millionaire and play for Manchester United, today [and every time he plays] he was a disgrace. His corners and free-kicks never beat the first man, until his 10th attempt where he makes sure he gets his foot under so it loops too high and far. His shots are pathetic. The expert passing he can allegedly produce seems to only apply when it's backwards or 5 yards sideways to Scholes. I watched the game with my Grandad, who after me pointing out Carrick's consistent awfulness, replied "I've never really noticed him before" - which seems to be a sentiment shared by many. (He was in full agreement by the end of the game, it must be noted.) How do the pundits and commentators not notice? He tried one "killer" pass ala Scholesy, that went safely out of play 20 yards away from the nearest United player. PATHETIC. The guy is a joke, his performance today was the one he produces every single time. To think he wears Roy Keanes number 16 shirt.
Finally, I want to discuss the pundit's [in particular Shearer] rose-tinted glasses when it comes to Wayne Rooney. Michael Owen was the best player on the park for United today. His pace, link up play, threat in behind the defence and finishing was first class. He was always involved when United were beyond the half way line, and their attacking threat was exellent. As soon as Rooney came onto the pitch, United lost their cutting egde. He had two meaningful contributions: one fantastic header [I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's very good - but completely over-rated] that he scored from and another header he missed when he had 3/4 of the goal to aim for. It wouldn't suprise me if Shearer had a Rooney poster in his room the way he was beaming about him afterwards. Stating United came to life with Rooney and that he changed the game. Owen was far more a threat, such a shame about his injury - he is United's best striker without doubt. For a world class player, Rooney doesn't have many meaningful moments in matches. Anyone see the BBC's Rooney compilation before hand? It was made up of 50% goal celebrations, the rest [bar one goal, against Spurs I think] were tap ins. Yes he busts a gut to do well, yes he is scoring lots of goals now, yes he is a good player - but PLEASE stop putting him in the same bracket as Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka or even Drogba/Torres. Rooney finishes off team goals, he doesn't make something out of nothing with a bit of genius. Sure, he gets in the positions and finishes it off, fair play to him because he's a good player - he just isn't world class like Shearer and co. would have you believe. No shame in not being in the world class bracket though, and I'm very glad we have him so it isn't a criticism of Wayne himself - more so of people's perception of him.
[please print this, I've tried twice before to dispel this Rooney myth but to no avail. However after todays glaringly biased punditry I feel there is no better time!]
Silvio Dante, MUFC, Salford.
...Can people stop proclaiming Rooney to be the best player in the world. He is playing well' scoring goals and having a great season but does anyone honestly think he is better than Messi or Ronaldo?
These two are obviously the World's finest players while Rooney can be ranked alongside Iniesta Drogba Torres Villa Ribery and Xavi.
I even had to endure Eamon Dunphy say Mr. Rooney is the best player since Pele!!!
Gerard Benson
Good Point
While Villa fans disdain for Phil Dowd is completely understandable, to say he cost them the game is going too far in my view.
They played against a 10-man United side only a few weeks ago and were lucky to get a draw - why would yesterday have been any different?
Kris Garthwaite, Darlo
Well This Is Confusing
Sounds daft, but...
Either the referee misses the shirt-pulling and sees clumsy defending which ends with both players in a heap, or he spots it and thus a reads it as deliberate and concerted attempt to stop Agbonlahor trying to score.
The first situation is a penalty, but not necessarily a red card.
A "clear goalscoring opportunity" is a key part of determining a professional foul, but it's not the only part - if red cards were routinely given for being a oaf in the penalty area then far fewer games would finish with 22 players.
With the benefit of replays (or, in fairness, merely passable eyesight) anyone can see that this was clearly not that case, and that Vidic deliberately took Agbonlahor down. This is indisputably a red card, no argument at all. But is it a penalty? Both players are outside the area when Vidic grabs the shirt. So if the ref had seen what we can all see on the replays, wouldn't the likely decision have been a red card for Vidic and a free kick just outside the area?
And if MON had been given the choice of a 1-0 headstart to face 11 men that included a semi-fit Vidic, or playing against 10 men and starting at 0-0, which would he have taken? Given how little they were able to make of numerical advantage against United at Villa Park a few weeks ago, I suspect MON would have taken the goal.
Just a thought.
Steve Mahoney, Coventry
'Common Sense'
Has a referee finally made a decision based on common sense? I've long been an advocate of a penalty is enough punishment and a red card should only be given for professional fouls outside the box. Dowd should be praised for actually making a decision on common sense and not be accused of being a bottler.
I remember reading somewhere that the FA were going to review this at the end of the season and I really hope this isn't a false dawn of common sense actually becoming part of the Laws of the beautiful game.
Well done Phil.
Toby "wishing Monday morning would never come" Hudson
Proud Of The Villa
Despite losing the final today I am very proud of the performance today and positive about the future of the club. I maybe wearing claret and blue glasses but I can't agree with your review of the game where you state Villa were completely outclassed by United.
Despite some nerves and silly mistakes from Cuellar, Dunne and Collins we were in the match from beginning to end and, in my view, were desperately unlucky not to at least take the game to extra time. Our players clearly lack experience of playing in Wembley finals and it affected us badly today. We were also badly affected by the shocking standard of refereeing. United players being allowed up to three bad challenged before being booked, but Villa players were booked for their first foul each time.
When players are already under pressure such bad refereeing can hardly help them produce their best yet, after O'Neill had spoken to them at the break, we cut out the silly errors in the second half and had several near misses before Rooney's lucky/brilliant goal won it, and again afterwards.
The Villa will be back, and they will be better for this trip to Wembley.
Matthew Riley, in deepest darkest Londonium.
Chelsea's Problems Are In Midfield
When football historians (for the sake of my argument, let's pretend that such a thing exists) look back on Chelsea's record from 2006 to the present, they won't so much be amazed that there wasn't more silverware to show for all the investment in transfers and wages but more amazed that the team managed to achieve anything whatsoever with Jon Obi Mikel and post-retirement Michael Ballack as regular starters in midfield. There surely can't be another top team in Europe in which two players contribute so little. Seeing Ballack in particular against Inter and Man City wander around smoking a cigar in between a scattering of misplaced passes and tactical fouls, it was hard to imagine that he had ever been such a dynamic and creative force in the Bundesliga and at WC 2002. He has done the square root of diddly squat in his time in England and it defies belief that he has had his astronomical contract extended. If he had gone to ManU rather than Chelsea in 2006, Fergie would have moved him on years ago and he'd be strolling about in the MLS by now. Is there a bigger wage thief in the modern game? As for Mikel, I think the most charitable way of putting it is that he has replaced Makalele in much the same way as Walcott has replaced Henry and Anderson has replaced Keane. I don't dislike the guy, he simply doesn't have the ability or the work ethic to play at the highest level.
Away from the Heat magazine infidelity nonsense, Joe Cole's collapse in form and the Hilarity (see what I did there?) of having a reserve goalie who seems not to know how to dive to save the ball, the major long-term problem facing Chelsea is their midfield. With Ballack and Mikel doing so little, Deco effectively reitred on (very) full pay and the ever-reliable Chub-meister getting towards his final years, Chelsea's midfield requires expensive emergency surgery in the next year or two if the team is to continue to perform at the level of the Abramovich era. A fit Essien would improve any team in the world, but aside from that, it's starting to look bizarrely threadbare considering the hype and investment.
John C (glad at least that Ballack's red card will lead to a suspension), London.
Pompey Have Cheated A Prem Place
I've just watched MOTD and heard Gary Lineker, in all his infinite wisdom, "totally agree" with the arguement from Avram Grant that it is wrong to punish Portsmouth by deducting points because they have had to enter administration. It is a point of view that is both stupid and entirely selfish.
It has never happened in the Premier League before, so lets look at League Two. Rochdale, my hometown team, are currently top of the league for the first time in a lifetime with a genuine chance of making promotion. This despite being run on a shoestring budget. In fact Rochdale are one of very few clubs run in profit in all the leagues, because the directors understand the importance of a football club to the town outweighs the chance of a successful club. However, every year we have to cope with playing against the likes of Rotherham and Bournemouth, who in previous years have overspent massively to buy better players to try to get out of the league. They go into administration as a quick-fix solution, after which they still have the promotion they gained unfairly. The reason the points deductions were brought in was to try to reflect the difference their overspending has made to their performance. In many ways, 9 or 10 points is not enough.
Portsmouth do not deserve their Premier League place because they have spent far more money than they had available to maintain their status. There is currently a club in the Championship, whoever it may be, who are run properly and within sensible financial limits, who are being denied a Premier League place by this club who have bought their place with money they don't have.
It's hard for their supporters, and I sympathise with them (except that t**t with a bell), but the fact is they do not deserve their place, and so the points deduction is absolutely vindicated.
Michael "This is the year, at last" Byrne, Rochdale.
Sickening Scenes
I'm sure many viewers, like me, will have been highly traumatised after watching Match of the Day on Saturday night. The incident was such uncomfortable viewing I felt physically sick and had to turn away from the TV in horror.
I refer, of course, to Gary Lineker's. string of 'Bridge' puns at the end of the programme. I guess it was only a matter of time before something like this happened, but how much worse does it have to get before someone takes action?
Yours in distress,
Alistair, London
A Plea
Dear Fabio Capello,
While you have the england lads together, please make sure that Ryan 'feet of death' Shawcross is kept as far away from Wayne Rooney as f***ing possible.
That is all.
Jon (I lost my watch today. Was gonna look for it but I didn't have the time) MUFC
Would Have Saved A Lot Of Time
Dear Michael Carrick,
A simple letter or phone call to Mr. Capello, stating your desire not to represent your country at the world cup would have sufficed.
Francois, (Sir Michael; Lord of the square pass), MUFC
The World Turned Upside Down
It's a strange strange world isn't it?
First off you have Craig Bellamy talking about John Terry's character and then you have Steven Gerrard getting the hump over someone diving.
What's next, Hilario calling someone a crap keeper??
Andy Bull
