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A Mail Entitled: Something Is Rotten In The State Of Torres
There has always been an attitude of complain rather than dig-in evident in Liverpools play and orchestrated by their manager and reflected in the stands, excluding a run or two when they were on a high last year inevitably when the going gets tough Gerard, Carragher, Mascherano, and the gang get lippy and paranoid and stop at the first sign of a tough tackle and shower the ref and the opposition with a volley of complaint and abuse instead of riding the wave and defeating the moment with football.
Two players rose above this Kyut and Torres. Both fine examples of a player that roll up their sleeves and with their own individual style kept going and answered whatever questions poised at them on the pitch with hard work that ultimately won the day. Torres in particular was a favorite of mine and I was gutted when I saw him go to Liverpool, especially when he did exactly what I expected him to do and blazed a trail in his on indomitable style.
Sadly his manager and his team ethos seems to have rubbed off on him, I guess to be fair, injuries have taken a toll, but all in all his attitude is appalling. Its been growing over the last two years and seems to be reaching breaking point. Where once a tackle came in he would charge past, or failing that he would burn the tackler next time round, now he just falls on contact, or stops running and looks to the referee screaming abuse. He's sarcastically applauding players, swearing at anyone in sight, and now in clear English too.
This week against Wigan in a condescending and abusing manner he slapped an opposition player repeatedly on the back of the head in a fake 'well done' gesture as he ran past, verbally threatening and goading him. I can't remember which player it was but he was a saint for not lowering himself to Torres's level and battering him. Anyone who has grown up with older brothers or bullies could be forgiven for having a short fuse as an adult when someone physically and verbally mocks them in that way. He behaved this way because he had been tackled and the referee was so unfair in Torres's opinion not to give him a free kick.
It's a sorry sight, and another example of how Liverpool and Rafa in particular ruin players. It has taken some doing for Rafa to bring a fair playing and exciting foreign player to England and turn him into a spoilt, cheating and disrespectful oik. Worryingly off the back of whatever frustration that is in him in the past few months he's now leaving the boot in in challenges, leaving the ground with both feet in the tackle, and leading with his elbows in headers, more and more it seems he's looking to hurt someone. Something is very wrong in that team, thats coming out through his play, but its sad to see the attitude of such a great player, regardless of who he plays for deteriorate in such a way.
Austin Maguire
No Point In Sacking Rafa
Presuming Liverpool do not make it into the Champions League next season, here is a summary of the next few seasons.
Sack Rafa in the summer, this is followed by a marginal improvement on the performances of this season (though this would happen if Liverpool don't sack Benitez). But Liverpool still don't make it into the top 4 because City continue to spend and improve their squad. The following season fans grow impatient as it looks like Liverpool will fail to qualify for the Champions League once more. By now, Liverpool are so far behind the top four, it looks hopeless. Liverpool sack their manager. The same process begins again but with Liverpool falling further and further away.
Last season's second place was a blip, a statistical anamoly. Something that can happen over a short period like 38 games. It wasn't because Rafa is a genius, anymore than this season proves he is imcompetent. This is because the importance of the manager is English football's greatest myth. Good luck, bad luck, refereeing decisions, injuries all play a bigger role, but most of all it is down to wages. The last Deloitte figures released (those for the 2007/2008 season) show Liverpool fourth in the wages table. Economist Stefan Syzmanski has done a lot of work looking at the relationship between wage levels and performance.
Over the last few decades wages explain 92% of variation in league position. Transfer fees a mere 16%. This pattern is repeated across Europe's major leagues. City's wagebill will, if it hasn't already, sail past Liverpool's. Then no matter who Liverpool's manager is, it will not make one iota of difference. Until Liverpool are able to build a bigger stadium, they haven't a hope. Even then, they will still struggle to make the top four. The probable future for Liverpool is as a midtable side who might get a good cup run once in a while. That is just the way it is.
Matt, Liverpool
...To all the Liverpool fans out there demanding the head of Benitez; firstly I want to say "HaHa", and secondly in a more serious non-partisan way "why"?
I am curious about what outcome people are expecting. As I see it; in order to obtain a manager capable of winning the league, Liverpool have two options. They can hire a relatively inexperienced manager with bags of potential and give him the time and money to establish a philosophy and build a team capable of great things, i.e. the Ferguson/Wenger approach, a proposition that becomes less likely as upstarts Man City and Tottenham et al put pressure on the European places. Alternatively, they can hire an experienced world class manager and demand instant success - think Mourinho at Inter, or Ancelotti at Chelsea. In its current state I'm not sure Liverpool will be capable of attracting this calibre of manager; no matter how great the club is, no money and bickering owners won't be that attractive an offering.
So my point is, regardless of which option is taken, the club will be no closer to winning the league than it is now. Benitez is probably the best manager the club could have in the short term; although the wheels have come off the wagon a bit this year, he has shown enough to make me think he could triumph in the Premier League eventually. I understand the frustration of the fans, but if they want trophies, I don't think they'll be doing themselves any favours by dumping Rafa.
Rob (They'll finish 6th, go bust and relegated anyway so it doesn't matter) CFC
Sympathy For The Scousers
Hi MC on this overcast, rain soaked Friday morning (it is in Birmingham anyway!)
I was published for the 1st time the other day and can I say what a sense of achievement and satisfaction I felt, much more than anything I do at work! So thank you for validating my struggle for publication!
Anyway following on from feeling dirty about liking Nicky Bentdner it is now time to confess my dirt like feelings due to feeling sorry and pity for the mighty Liverpool FC (I think it stands for F**king Crap) I find myself unable to laugh at them or take any satisfaction from their many failings anymore. I can't even bring myself to take the p*ss out of the 'Pool fans at work, it just seems cruel. I feel the way you would if you saw an animal suffering and you knew the best thing would be to put it down....did I mention I support Manchester United? What is wrong with me!?
Monty Burns (its been sunny all week and now the Heavens have opened, typical)
The Form Of Steven Gerrard
As Capello has stated he picks people on form. Does this means that he'll drop Stevie G or does even Capello view him as 'Undroppable'? It's hard to imagine a fully fit Gerrard not getting into the England side, but this has been a very different year for the Liverpool messiah. Can anyone remember the last time he actually played well, for club or country.(I vaguely remember him pulling 'pool out of the p** in some final or other too long ago to remember...) Whatever the reason for his general cackness is, it strikes me that if Capello is true to his word, current form suggests that he aint getting on no Plane (fool).
Now, I've always taken the side of Gerrard in the LampardvGerrard debate and the thought of not taking him to SA is alarming but on current evidence you'd have to leave Gerrard behind, throw Milner in there and consider leaving a meat pie on the bench for Lamps to munch while Carrick - as much as it pains me - fills the midfielder sized hole on the field. (or preferrably Hargreaves, but I can't see him coming back to health, yet alone into any kind of form on time).
Andrew CPFC
Out-Doing Gregory And Morgan
And the "clinging to his own fantasy world award" goes to... Philip Ward!!
Mr Ward has been consistent in clinging to his Rafa is God belief and beat out fierce competition from Gregory Whitehead and the ever irrational Morgan Goford.
Congratiolations Sir!
Francois, (Ignorance is bliss), MUFC, RSA Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
Wahey! Gregory's Back!
Joe (I've been working in a school recently hence the schoolboy roleplay) Birmingham and Jack (really nothing better to do with my time) Foster ask, variously, if I still think Liverpool were the real winners and how I'll put a positive spin on things.
Well, I thought it'd be perfectly obvious that the answer would be (in order) 'yes, even more so now' and 'quite easily'.
There was a certain amount of hyperbole about us being the 'big' winners of the week [a tad mischeivous on the part of the MC if truth be told]. But, I stand by the assertion that Europe's most successful club (9 time winnners) bombing out despite a £250M summer outlay might just matter more in the bigger scheme of things than United mauling an atrocious Milan side or Arsenal doing the same to possibly the worst team to play in the European Cup since TNS or that small club across the park from us.
Again, you can be fairly sure that Real will already be sounding out potential Pellegrini replacements; they've shown in the past that domestic titles stand for nothing [see Schuster, Del Bosque and Capello even]. Europe or bust, at they say. So would they consider a man who has worked at Real previously - with some success albeit with the youth and 'B' setup - and has made no secret of wanting to go back? A man who has taken Liverpool to a winning and losing final in his short tenure. A man who has enjoyed more European Cup success in 5 short years than the combined European Cup histories of Arsenal and Chelsea combined (not hard, I'll grant you)?
I think the answer is fairly obvious. Rafa's demeanour strikes me as a man wating for the call.
For what it's worth I never showed my hand. I was merely debating how a highly possible turn of events could lead to Rafa's exit from Liverpool. Something I feel would benefit all parties. Me? I'm a big Rafa fan. I see lots of positives in him. But I equally see lots of negatives. As with any relationship, when the negatives outweigh the positives it's time to end it. Last night was perhaps the nadir. Taking off, arguably, our best performer on the night and our liveliest player whilst inexplicably leaving Kuyt to be sh*t on the right was it for me. Take Kuyt off, switch Babel to the right and let Riera patrol the left...
Is it that simple Rafa, do you think?
Gregory Whitehead
Moyesiah >>>> Benitez
To quote a rather annoying mailbox poster, in regards to the first post of the morning mailbox...LOL, get your head up, Rafa isn't even the best manager in Liverpool.
And regarding Eoghan, surely your example of Rafa missing his own father's last moments for football kind of undercuts your own point. I'm not going to attack the man for his actions, all families are different and deal with death differently but i'm sure there would be plenty who would give him stick for missing his last moments for what is, let's call a spade a spade here, a game. Surely you would be praising Rafa, the man, if he realised that it was only a game and went to see his father, dare i say that Rafa, the man, looks pretty bleak when he considered the game of football to take pride of place over his family?
Dave Glasgow
Sarcy Bugger
I read with interest Morgan (the referee was appalling - speaks volumes that he was still so much better than Liverpool) Goford's missive this morning. He quite rightly points out that Gerrard has been under-achieving and that Rafa has lost all confidence in his players (and vice versa). On a similar note, I would like to offer a critique of my own club (Blackburn Rovers) and maybe offer some solutions.
Allardyce came in and did a job for us, his massive masticating face still raises a smile as he prowls the technical area like a dominant walrus at feeding time. But the ugly football isn't going to get us to that coveted 4th place that all fans dream of for their team.
Diouf has deteriorated from that spritely, wholly-unlikable shitehawk of a few years ago to just being a wholly-unlikable shitehawk, Keith Andrews is Keith Andrews, Jason Roberts (lovely bloke that he is) is amongst the least convincing strikers to ever play in top-flight football and the more I see of Salgado (53 international caps) the more I understand why Spain never flourished on the international scene for so many years.
I think we should get rid of Allardyce and bring in Hiddink/Mourinho/Dalglish, ship out those who are not pulling their weight. Keep Robinson, Samba, Dunn and Kalinić and build on that spine. Maybe we could bring in Davids Villa and Silva?
Scof (We won it once at Anfield Road) Mann
Two Legs = B**locks
The game last night in Lille just confirmed to me what a load of old bollocks two legged ties really are. Their purpose solely being that if a big boy slips up he has another chance to rectify things and progress in the competition. Lille have a chance at Anfield for sure, but the odds are stacked against. I know Lyon knocked Real Madrid out in two legs, but how often does it happen really?
I know it is about money and more games but a little bit of the romance is taken away when a smaller club has their chances of progression reduced by the two legged farce.
First team drawn out - Home, second team drawn - tough sh*t son, you are away. One game, one result.
John, Edinburgh
Arsenal: Crocked
I would like to point out to Dinesh that while Arsenal's defensive Injuries have not been as bad as United, they have been without Djourou for the entire season, Gibbs has been injured for almost all of it, and Clichy, Gallas and Sagna have all have lengthy periods out. Granted, These injuries are not as bad as having lost Vidic and Ferdinand for 3 quarters of the season, but they are not inconsiderable. Especially when you take into account that as a whole, the rest of the United squad has been reasonably healthy (excluding Owen) while Arsenal have had a myriad of injury issues pretty much all across the team.
Mark B
...Can Dinesh and all other United fans stop re-writing history saying United played a whole month with Carrick and Fletcher at Centre Half.
If I remember correctly, they did so for one game, Fulham, where thy got humbled 3-0! Sure Carrick played alongside Vidic, for I think one game against a Wolves reserve team, but just get you facts straight.
If you really want to make a point about United injuries, how about Vidic and Ferdinand never playing, whereas Gallas and Vermaelen have been ever-present? Well that doesn't really hold up as no-one had any sympathy for Arsenal whilst season after season we haven't put out our first choice centre-halves. This year has been an aberration, one which Gallas has promptly put to bed with a mysterious muscle injury.
Try this for injury problems: Djourou (whole season), Gibbs (most of the season), Diaby (plays one in two games), Fabregas (months of problems with his hamstring), Rosicky (1 in 2), Nasri (broken leg for first few months), Ramsey (no explanation required), Arshavin (couldn't use his right foot for months), Van Persie (Out for most the season), Eduardo (1 in 2), Walcott (most the season so far), Bendtner (most the season so far), Vela (had problems all season).
Ok I know this has been well publicised but it needs highlighting again seemingly. We had to play that nightmare run against Villa, Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool without a striker! Let me repeat, without a striker! So here's a new challenge for you to come up with a comparable - who else could've coped with games like that without any centre forward at all?
Ok so we didn't cope that well, but apparently United coped brilliantly without their defenders, only losing 3-0 to Fulham!
Tom (we'd be odds on favourites with the Perse), Gooner
...At least you have a 8th, 9th and 10th choice defender. We've got Silvestre.
Justin Farmer, Gooner, Islington
...Dinesh mate, we don't defend anyway, so what's your point?
Ger Scully AFC
...Dinesh should know that Arsenal don't play with defenders, they're simply slightly more withdrawn strikers/ rear wingers.
Tim "Tom Vermaelen, Tom Vermaelen, Tom Vermaelen Number Five...." Stillman
Come And Get Me
So Arsene's statement about Real is a hands-off warning, eh?
"Leave me alone. I am always going to stay to the end of my contract and I am going (to stay at Arsenal) until 2011. There is no way I am going to break it... At the moment my focus is fully on Hull City. They may be less glamorous than Real Madrid, but they are much more important in my life at the moment...It shows that £240million does not necessarily buy you the Champions League... If you can spend that kind of money every year, you will get there in the end.."
PR-speak translation: "Leave me alone for now. There's no possibility of me leaving Arsenal until next year, so wait until next summer for me, save the cash, and I'll win you the Champions' League. I'm a man of honour, I won't break a contract, and the next match is more important at the moment. AT THE MOMENT!"
Surely a manager of his ability will want to try a truly big club one day. To reshape Real into the world force they long to be is probably the greatest challenge in football today. Real should wait and give him the reign of the club, as Fergie has had at Man Utd, to build it from the youth team upwards. And I bet Arsene wouldn't mind having a bit of cash for a change. Who knows, he might even take Mr. Fabregas with him...
Paul - (Spurs fan who thinks Wenger could do much better for himself) - Taiwan
Stuff
I thought of some stuff:
1) In response to Eoghan, if that is true and Rafa did miss his own father's death and funeral for football, I can't think of a more searing indictment of him as a man. Up until now I'd always thought of him as an overly stubborn manager, with little media savvy, a persecution complex and an unerring eye for the mediocre player but that was counter balanced by a touching level of loyalty and the odd burst of tactical excellence.
2) It's funny when people list solutions when their club's performances go down the pan. We all do it. I know they are hurting and it all seems so simple but is Mouriniho really going to go to Liverpool? No money, ruins his avowed interest in managing United at some point (surely even the special one wouldn't do that would he?) and ditching Milan, where he seems to be currently enjoying winding up the Italians. Is keeping Torres (mentally valuable perma-crock), Gerrard (cash in now for God's sakes), Mascherano (see below) and Reina (Ok he's good and seems to want to stay but he did admit 'Pool were rubbish rather early in the season) the answer? Why not start clear the decks and start again?
3) Jamie from Helsinki... Quick question: what is the ECL? The English Champions League? I know the majority of teams are technically English and the other Milan and Porto really were diabolical but Barcelona did win it last year, so lets not call it the ECL yet eh?
4) I don't understand Mascherano. I really don't. He doesn't seem very good to me. Then again, I said that about Nasri and the shaven legged, girl pant wearing effete pixie turned out to be Maradona reincarnate. Well, differently-carnate anyway as technically he's still alive.
Harry Eaton
The Generation Game
Earlier this week, someone referred to Diego Maradonna as the best player the world has ever seen (or something to that effect.) This gets my goat. Let me explain.
There are two different ways we can look at this;
1 - The best player the world has ever seen is someone who has raised the level of the game from before they were on the scene, a visionary, a pioneer. In this way, the nose candy loving South American chubster could claim to be this said 'best player the world has ever seen' - along with about a hundred other players. It becomes far too subjective. Obviously the standard of other footballers around, teams played for, teams played against all play a part in a players history and thus the remembrance of their ability. Even a 'flat track bully' (as every mailer seems to love referencing) would eventually be remembered as a goal scoring machine if he only ever played weak opposition as the opposition gets lost in history.
In this way, it would be much, much harder for a player from today to ever establish himself as 'the best player the world has ever seen'. Which leads me onto point 2;
2- The best player the world has ever seen is simply the best player the world has ever seen. When I was a boy, everyone in the playground could do 'a Cruyff turn', in Cruyffs day it surprised everybody. Nobody in my playground had ever heard of Ronaldinho. Nowadays, kids (obviously good kids) can do 'the Ronaldinho' (you know, the ball on the inside of the foot going in, then the outside going out sending defender wrong way all in the same movement thingy...). Kids are obviously technically better than previous generations. They imitate what they see. Seeing more, the try it and can subsequently do more. There is less room for invention nowadays, like music, it's all been played.
Coupled with modern diets and training regimes, no smoking, no sex (not with their wives anyway), players nowadays would simply wipe the floor with the legends of old if all put on the same pitch at the same time. The counter to this argument obviously being if one of these past legends were born today, with all I have just said they might be everything today's players are and more, but they weren't. Therefore I believe that the best player in the world at any given time is the best player the world has ever seen. Football is progressive.
Put simply, if we could take the best 22 players in the world past and present and put them all on a pitch, Christiano Ronaldo should still dick on the rest. He is the best athlete of the lot, and can do anything any of the rest could do. They could not do what he can do. And that is hard for me to say as a Liverpool supporter! I'd probably be 5th or 6th....
Dom (If printed this would be around my 12th mailbox letter - I wonder if anyone remembers my name...?) Littleford
Imposters?
Do you think that the likes of Gregory Whitehead, Phillip Ward, are actually Everton or Man U supporters? As an objective observer it would be crystal clear to a panel headed by Helen Keller that Rafa has to go, but these guys seem desperate to keep him. Hmmm
Is Rafa being lined up as the new Man City manager and is surreptitiously trying to ruin his closest future opponents? Hmmm
Is Liverpool actually owned by ITV, and the last year is basically going to be shown as a 10 part comedy drama, with us finding out at the end of the season that Gillette and Hicks are actually Ant & Dec in prosthetic costumes? Hmmm
If it does become a TV programme what better title for the series than 'Lost' (You may need to haggle over the rights to that name)
I don't know, but this is the best car crash TV since that Maureen women joined Driving School. I can't wait for season 2 after the crippling cash crisis, 'Survivors'
Chris, Liverpool
Cheese: More Exciting Than Football
Just read that this years cheese rolling in Gloucester has had to be cancelled for safety reason as 15,000 people turned up to watch last year!
Goes to show that people would rather watch fools launch themselves down a hill after a 7lb cheese than watch Bolton, Blackburn or Wigan?
Come to think of it i'd rather watch that than us at the minute
Mogsy, LFC (Wishing Dirk Kuyt would launch himself down a hill get injured and then Rafa couldnt pick him for a few weeks!!)
...Ella...Ella...Ella...
So the despicable Sam Allardyce is jumping through hoops because one of the 'Big 4' managers made some less than complimentary remarks about him in the press.
I can only liken this to Rihanna telling the world that I have a small c**k.
Andy, London
