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F365 Opinion

Winners And Losers Whinging And Whining

Posted 16/03/10 12:22
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This week we're mostly talking Daryl Harper, the prospects of Aston Villa and Tottenham and the alterations they might need to make, Owen Coyle, Nicklas Bendtner, and other arguments...

"PG - is there any way you can get your Carlos Cuellar point sent across to MON? Our one and only flaw in a great manager is this little RB situation. Read any Villa fans' forum and its been prominent on there for about 2 months now. So glaringly obvious it hurts to watch...." - mattjpa.

"Villa's post-Christmas form is pretty awful - we've only scored in 3 out of 11 games. No rotation and no substitutions before the 88th minute is starting to cost us again - 1 in 3 of the goals we concede are in the last ten mins of a half. Milner, Young, Petrov and Agbonlahor look absolutely knackered" - Ezy Rider.

PG: Mind if we swap roles for a week and I defend Villa against a perceived harsh comment? Because 'awful' does seem excessive given that they've managed, more or less, to keep pace in the chase for that final Champions League place - we're all agreed now, aren't we, that the top three are out of sight? - whilst still progressing in both domestic cup competitions. They're doing well, no question.

The question to be asked now, however, is whether they can stay where they are without introducing some fresh blood - that's a great stat Ezy has unearthed about when they tend to concede but not a great surprise - and a more offensive outlook. Good context for the point about Cuellar is the telling impact Gareth Bale has made in recent matches for Spurs even when he was playing at full-back. As Arsene Wenger noted last week, "Full-back is a very important position in modern football - getting out of pressure most of the time comes through the wings and starts with the full-backs."


"With regards Turbull, no mystery, same reason they signed Sturridge on the cheap. You'll remember last year Chelsea had to drop Ballack from their CL squad because they had insufficient "home-grown" players, therefore they had to forfeit a place in their squad. By signing two freebie young English players, they meet the criteria by artificially inflating that number in their squad, leaving them free to pick the likes of Belletti, Ballack, Ferriera and other such impediments to Chelsea youth players" - Little_Dutch.

PG: Hats off for a really good point. Though it still doesn't explain how, as reported this weekend, they could have decided to sign Turnbull based upon his performance in a warm-up. Sorry, can I re-iterate that: a warm-up!


"On the Kalinic goal, he did hand ball it. No where in the rules does it say anything about circumstance. The ball hit his arm which directly led to the ball falling to the spot where he could unleash. Intent is neither here nor there" - kevinboatang.

PG: Well, it kinda is. As you say, the rules don't mention 'circumstance', but Law 12 in Fifa's Laws of the Game states that a 'free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player handles the ball deliberately'. Given that his arm was shoved forward by Michael Dawson, I'm rather unconvinced that Kalinic's handling can be adjudged deliberate. Unless, that is, he was using some of Jedi mind trick on Dawson.


"One thing though - Bale, Wilson, Modders, Lennon. That's some midfield, although a tad light on tackles. The question is, where do Hudd and Sandro play?" - kevinboatang.

PG: This is what we were talking about last week, isn't it? In their present form, Spurs look too offensively-minded, and that apparent imbalance is probably why they've conceded so many goals this season against the three teams above them in the table. Especially if they qualify for the Champions League, the availability of two holding midfielders will be a real asset. With Gareth Bale at left back, two from Luca Modric, Nico Kranjcar and Aaron Lennon on the flanks, it's not as if their attack will suffer from a lack of support it Harry Redknapp does add extra grit alongside Wilson Palacios.


"Villa are undefeated in the league this year and a point at Stoke is more than we managed last season" - Turamber.

PG: And Manchester United lost at Burnley this season. Does that mean a draw at Turf Moor would be a good result for United next season if Burnley stay up?


"But what would happen if they lost Drogba?" - Please refer to: Your Anelka comment, January 2010, and Sunderland" - Makelegend.

PG: And please refer to the many times pre-Christmas we predicted that, regardless of African Nations Cup commitments, January would be a good month for Chelsea because it presented such an undemanding fixture list. Beating Sunderland without Drogba is one thing; having to face Manchester United, Liverpool, Inter Milan and maybe Barcelona later this season without Drogba would be quite another.

As we said repeatedly before the turn of the year, all the fuss about January is this season's red herring.


"Biggest winners this weekend: Walcott and SWP. With Beckham and Lennon (more or less) being ruled out of the WC squad, Walcott and SWP can now cancel their holiday plans" - slaphead.

PG: The problems of Beckham and Lennon also gives fresh hope to Joe Cole and Adam Johnson.


"As an Arsenal fan, I agree with nearly everything you wrote on the Hull v Arsenal officiating, two yellows for two sending off offences! However I have to back the lino for an understandable error. Yes he is a yard off, but he was only off for a second or so" - Epideme.

PG: The point I was making - unsuccessfully, evidently - was that Vennegoor of Hesselink was offside from the moment the move began and barely moved at all during the build-up. As far as offside decisions go, this was an easy one.


"I am actually getting a bit worried about Spurs. They're making a really decent push for fourth. Liverpool HAVE to win tonight as a bare minimum. The battle for fourth is proving to be a lot tougher than I first thought at the turn of the year. I really expected Spurs, Villa and City to drop off (or at least one of them). This relentless is a concern" - Fake_Dave.

PG: As we're bringing personal sentiment into the debate, I have to admit that I'm really hopeful that Spurs finish fourth. A different English face in the Champions League would have a welcome appeal just because it would be so very interesting to find out how they fare. One thought that did occur last week when watching the last-16 ties, and those involving Milan and Porto in particular, was that Villa and Tottenham have nothing to fear.


'"Three of the six goals scored by Bendtner in his last four matches have been netted into an open goal from an average distance of four yards'. Sign of a good CF is you ask me" - bustystclair.

"Rather than mocking the fact that Bendtner's been scoring tap-ins, perhaps you should be lauding the fact that Wenger has now discovered that 'fox in the box' to get on the end of all those nice tippy-tappy moves. And perhaps some credit to the player for getting himself into positions that no other Arsenal player seems capable of"- fictionalemu.

PG: As stated in the Winners&Losers edition that followed his horror show against Burnley: 'The good news is that he is frequently in the right position at the right time.'


"Another Winners & Losers section, another chance to ignore Birmingham City. Coming back from 2-0 down against an in-form Everton team to make it 2-2 and keep the gap at four points between us is a bit more deserving than Bolton managing to stave off relegation IMHO. At the very least Everton should be in the Losers section" - KeepRightOn.

PG: Hmm. Looked to me that Birmingham were exceptionally fortunate to finish that game with a point. And the only point of general interest to the game was its arguable status as this year's first end-of-season fixture.


"As for Mancini, why is it that Mourinho gets lauded for making 'brave' early substitutions when he can see that his tactics aren't working, but when Mancini does is is a sign of confusion?" - fictionalemu.

PG: Presumably because when Mourinho joined the Premier League, his team led, more or less, from start to finish in his first season and then set a multitude of records when they won it the following season as well. Whereas Mancini's win ratio since being hired to take over 'the new Chelski' is only a smidgen above 50%.


"Owen Coyle really should be a winner here together with an apology. F365 were obsessed with making his move a disaster and now it looks to be an excellent decision" - Infinity89.

PG: Depends on your perspective. Two months on, we're still awaiting the League Managers' Association first comment on the matter, and it looks as if the outcome most people predicted immediately after Coyle abandoned Burnley will come to pass: their relegation. We'll never know if Burnley would have survived had Coyle stayed, but his decision to abandon ship has seemingly condemned them to certain relegation.

'Excellent', you say? Looked at purely and simply as a matter of self-interest then his decision was certainly correct. Looked at it with some other virtues in mind and the matter is rather less clear cut and approval-worthy.


"Maybe you should actually watch Stoke before commenting. While the Villa game was dire (which was as much down to them as us), the entertainment was actually quite good. It's just the actual putting the ball in the net that we struggle with" - Sergei Shtaniuk.

"After spending the best part of 25 years watching, at best a mid-table Championship side (at worst mid-table 3rd Division) I am now very entertained. So what the armchair viewing plastics and the more clueless sections of the media are not entertained, it's not your club and none of your business, go and watch Dancing on Ice then you can vote for who entertains you" - Stokie Rich.

PG: If only we could. Unfortunately it's written into the league regulations that every team has to be shown a set number of times per season in a televised game - off the top of my head, I think it's a minimum of four - so those of us who do like to watch a game of football from the comfort of our armchair have no choice in the matter. Moreover, as Stoke are earning millions and millions of pounds sterling in television money for every year they are in the Premier League it's most definitely 'our business' and right to complain.

As for Sergei's suggestion that 'you should actually watch Stoke before commenting', that's the problem in reverse. It was when seeing them in action against Arsenal and Chelsea that I realised they had achieved what was previously thought to be impossible and become even more one-dimensional than they were last season.


"Just need to get something off my chest about Sky Sport's Rooney and Man Utd love-in Sunday Afternoon. So Man Utd have scored 100 goals this season in all comps if you include the Charity Shield, with Sky trying to make out that is was a really great achievement because only Man Utd can do this sort of thing. I would like to point out that both Arsenal and Chelsea have passed the 100 goal mark in all comps and that's not including the Charity Shield. So that must make Arsenal and Chelsea much greater than Man Utd in the eyes of Sky if that is how they are going to denote greatness this season" - Chelseablue.

PG: I'm blatantly hijacking your point to go on a tangent, but if you think that Sky, or anyone else for that matter, has been guilty of overdoing the Rooney love-in then think again. Or at least just read what The Evening Standard had to say about him last week.

To quote: 'Wayne Rooney has grown into this year's national hero...Everything about him is heroic...More important is a moral strength which looks like leadership... If he wants to be a role model for literacy and numeracy among the young, he could transform the aspirations of truant boys...Sweet that his indiscretion was with an old hooker rather than the standard glamour model. His heart is local and kind...There's no better role model than Wayne Rooney...'

Aside from the remarkable disclosure that 'romancing' a grandmother is proof of a 'local and kind heart', this type of talk is noteworthy only in one very worrying respect: He's being set up for a crashing fall.

Pete Gill


Your Comments

epideme

""The point I was making - unsuccessfully, evidently..."

I understood your point perfectly, I disagree with it. You say he barely moved, but in barely moving, he managed to be in an onside position while the ball was in the air (and I'll assume at the point the sound of the kick reached lino's ears) and then ahead on the defence when the ball got to him. I wish I could barely move like that."

Cesc_Bomb

"Fake_Dave - Apology accepted. Nice to see you again, Stokie_Rich."

Stokie_Rich

"So what Pete is saying is that it is Stoke's job to keep him entertained? Its only my second season supporting a premier league team, i thought it was a league where teams try to compete against each other and not WWE, obviously i was wrong. As another stokie in the mailbox said today; look what happened to West Brom when they wanted to entertain the tv viewers. Cesc_Bomb - you Arsenal fans are a bitter lot, you do make me laugh, i thought it was Hull's turn to take your abuse this week?"

Fake_Dave

"Cesc_Bomb - you're absolutely right, I have missed the point completely. Apologies.

You have stated that Stoke are a boring team and that you are not entertained by them. I had no idea that Stoke's main aim is to entertain Cesc_Bomb. I thought their aim was to play football the best way they can, play for their fans, to be competitive and maintain Prem Lge status . I had no idea their their real mandate was to entertain you sitting on your sofa barking away as the armchair general. I also didn't realise that Cesc_Bomb is the best judge on who is a worthy team to play in the Prem Lge.

So truly, my sincere apologies. "

Cesc_Bomb

"Fake_Dave - Once again you have spectacularly missed the point. "

Fake_Dave

"Cesc_Bomb - not every team can play football like Arsenal who are one of the best teams to watch in terms of attacking style. At least you get to see skill and flair almost every game you go to. If Stoke fans are happy with the way their team plays then that's great. They're obviously delighted to be in the Prem Lge and until they become an established presence then they should play the most effective way. Effective here means getting results, not entertaining Arsenal fans.

I remember a few yrs ago the ribbing that Newcastle fans got as being fans who would prefer to lose 4-3 than win 1-0. The priority is always to win. Then once you are established, try the fancy stuff. Arsenal could learn a little from this as well as you have been comprehensively outscored in terms of points by Man U and Chelsea over last few yrs. You have played the fancy stuff, but have not won anything. (My team Liverpool have this year played unnatractive football and have failed to get results - we have to get results right first and build form there.)

Despite 1989 I am no hater of Arsenal and think they play some really entertaining football. But this top-down judgement from fans is a little rich considering you've won as many trophies as Stoke in the last 5 yrs. Peace out. "

slaphead

"After last night, Joe Cole can start planning a nice summer break. Adam Johnson may be a good shout, but it's probably a bit too much of a chance for Fabio. Walcott and SWP are on the plane to SA - even though, with everyone fit, they would be 3rd and 4th choices behind Lennon and Beckham."

Cesc_Bomb

"Fake_Dave - Arsenal beat Stoke 3-0 at home and 3-1 away so it doesn't anger me in the slightest that they play the way they do. I think you may be confusing your own teams lack of ability to break these sides down with Arsenal's. We're doing just fine thanks. My point was that when I settle down to watch a Premier League match at home, I would hope for a decent game and with Stoke you know it's going to be all towels, noise and not much else. I don't deny that they have a right to play any way that will get them a result but I find it f**king boring and not worthy of a team in the top tier of the English game. It's a shame because I enjoy watching all teams play football. If only Stoke could learn how to."

Fake_Dave

"Arsenal are angry with opposition teams when they turn up and decide to play defensive and physical football. very few teams can live with Arsenal in an open, attacking game.

You cannot blame any team for adopting tactics to null the opposition. It is up to your team to counter them. Throw-ins are perfectly legitimate - deal with them. There is an arrogance that teams are spoiling football. This is disappointing. It is up to the bigger teams to get the results and when they fail that is their fault. Football is about attacking and (shock horror) defending. I was diappointed when my team Liverpool had two 0-0 draws with Stoke last year. Stole have proved a difficult team to beat and managers can't expect an easy game when they go there. I am sure Stoke fans would rather establish themselves in the Premier Lge than have open, attacking games where they may be relegated at the end of the season. "

ProudPotter

"You think it's appropriate to judge Stoke on the basis of watching them against Arsenal and Chelsea, who as Sergei Shtaniuk has already pointed out, are a little bit better than us? And that's actually your justification for your comments? Wow, I mean just, wow. I don't think it's particularly worth addressing anything you've got to say after that little pearl of wisdom but the idea that Stoke are more one-dimensional than last season is laughable. Of course, like last seaon and the season before, we focus a lot on on set-pieces (I'll do you a favour and assume you didn't just mean the throw-ins, though I suspect I'm giving you too much credit there) but we're also quite capable of playing some decent football as well, as we've shown in a number of (televised) matches this season. Still, if it makes you and the legions of Arsenal supporters happy to stick to these tired old cliches, in spite of the ample evidence to the contrary (say, an FA Cup tie against, erm, Arsenal?), then I'm not going to intefere. Bless you..."

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